Sometimes it may feel that the justice system protects the perpetrator a lot more than it does the victim:
There are many things an accused can use to mitigate their position, there are many reasons to shorted a sentence, they can get out on good behavior, they can generally serve a lot less than what they deserve even by the letter of the law. Oftentimes, they may not even be successfully indicted because a ton of legal problems or loopholes can be utilized for the perpetrator to evade justice.
And that's without even factoring in the aspects of money being able to buy a seat above the law, or lawyers or prosecutors not caring enough to do their work well to deliver a correct verdict where the correct person is convicted properly and proportionally of the crime they commited.
And that leaves the victims exposed, unvindicated, and doubly traumatised. There's nothing worse than to see the person who wronged you walk away with their abuse and move on to live their lives. Survivors of SA are an especially heartbreaking and painful example of how a victim is treated a lot more harshly than their perpetrator.
Even in mental health research, it's a lot easier to find studies on the mental health of the convicted rather than that of the victims- unless it's victims of justice itself (wrongful conviction).
So, with that in mind, how about some definitions?
What is justice. And by contrast, what is revenge and when does it happen?
According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, justice is “the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments.” With “what is just” referring to something that is objectively correct or conforming to fact or reason.
If we venture in the field of ethics, the definition slightly changes:
“Justice is a concept intended to promote fair and equitable treatment of individuals within populations,” according to two doctors, Drs. Feinsod and Wagner
Applied ethics adds to that with the aspect: “Individuals should be treated the same, unless they differ in ways that are relevant to the situation in which they are involved.”
Justice, therefore, is the principle of equality of treatment provided the context and parameters of any given situation are the same. Justice needs to be objective, grounded in reality, and unfettered from influences that are irrelevant to the evaluation of the issue at hand.
Justice is formal. We have an entire system in place, with a ton of pomp and circumstance rivaled only by that of churches, to be able to mete out justice on a daily basis.
And when it fails, or if people anticipate it will fail, revenge comes into play.
What is revenge?
According to the Cambridge dictionary, it is “harm done to someone as a punishment for harm that they have done to someone else.”
But why limit ourselves there? The sexy stuff happens when we ask philosophers about it! Let's begin by saying that they define it as “returning injury for injury.” For it to be legitimately revenge and not some kind of sadistic kink, revenge has to be as proportionate to the crime as we expect within the formal framework of justice. It's just informal.
You'd expect that in the field of ethics, revenge would be unanimously castigated, and you'd be wrong. There are of course those who consider revenge morally wrong for a variety of reasons (morally improper, serving only pettiness or an emotional need of the one taking it, being inherently destructive, etc.) but there are also those who consider it not only ethically sound but something victims are entitled to.
Vengeance is generally the option a victim has for vindication if the formal justice system fails them: if the perpetrator evades justice (be it by not being tried at all or by not receiving a sentence proportional to the crime, or anything in between), then the victim may want to extract revenge to equalize the level and severity of the injury inflicted with what punishment the perpetrator receives.
If the formal justice system works well, then generally vengeance isn't needed because the injury has been ‘matched’ or ‘returned’. Victims feel vindicated, protected, and seen by their own society. They don't need to take revenge. In short, it's society that takes revenge for the victim in a very formal manner when the justice system works.
Vengeance isn't just punitive. It's meant to have a deterrant effect for the future, exactly like formal sentencing does, and it's meant to teach the perpetrator (who isn't empathetic) how much pain is inflicted by the crime and thus, having experienced the same magnitude of hurt themselves, will have aversion from any repeats.
But if society fails to do that, then the need for vindication isn't met, and vengeance becomes relevant.
If vengeance is disproportionate to the injury inflicted, then it ceases to be vengeance/revenge and it becomes sadism. A character who inflicts an inordinate amount of pain on another individual with the excuse of a previous (much smaller in scale) injury suffered, is a hypocrite who is only seeking to enjoy other people's pain.
And with these things laid down, now you have a great range of behaviors for your characters and your world.
A world where revenge is often needed (whether it is extracted or not) is a world that is full of injustice, inequality, and hypocrisy.
A world where revenge isn't needed because the justice system works is a lot healthier and by default fair- equal and with equity for its populations, so that revenge is redundant.
A character who is vindictive could be
a) sadistic
b) very traumatized
c) informed by a history of the world and their peers letting them down and leaving them vulnerable to aggressors
d) all of the above
Vengeance could begin by being properly proportionate and then devolve into bullying and sadism when the victim becomes the abuser/perpetrator. A character arc of ‘descent into madness/evil/crossing the moral event horizon’ could begin from a place of righteousness.
Given all of the above, a world where you need vigilantes and superheroes to avenge victims or mete out justice in their name is a failed world, a failed state, or a failed city.
How have you handled justice and revenge in your webcomics or stories?
Don't forget! The #quackchat has moved to BlueSky! Join us on Sunday evening for our Quackchat at 5:30PM(EST)!
You can also advertise on DrunkDuck for just $2 in whichever ad spot you like! The money goes straight into running the site. Want to know more? Click this link here! Or, if you want to help us keep the lights on you can sponsor us on Patreon. Every bit helps us!
Special thanks to our patrons!!
Justnopoint - Banes - RMccool - Abt_Nihil - Gunwallace - PaulEberhardt - Emma_Clare - FunctionCreep - SinJinsoku - Smkinoshita - jerrie - Chickfighter - Andreas_Helixfinger - Tantz_Aerine - Genejoke - Davey Do - Gullas - Roma - NanoCritters - Teh Andeh - Peipei - Digital_Genesis - Hushicho - Palouka - cheeko - Paneltastic - L.C.Stein - dpat57 - Bravo1102 - The Jagged - LoliGen - OrcGirl - Miss Judged - Fallopiancrusader - arborcides - ChipperChartreuse - Mogtrost - InkyMoondrop - Jgib99 - Hirokari - Orgivemedeath Ind - Mks Monsters - GregJ - HawkandFloAdventures - Soushiyo - JohnCelestri- Tottycomics - Casscade - Salexander - Willed - Sketchydrawer - Niccea
Justice vs Revenge and What it Says About the World
Tantz_Aerine at 12:00AM, Nov. 16, 2024
5 likes!
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved Mastodon
Andreas_Helixfinger at 9:55PM, Nov. 17, 2024
Actually, now that I think about it. Maybe I do have cheerleadered vigilantes in one of my comics (Or will have I should say. progress is slow). That is though if you replace hurting/killing/apprehending with stealing/hijacking things and redistributing it to your community in a Robin Hood-esque kind of way:P That does count as a kind of revenge doesn't it? "You steal from us, we steal it right back" sort of thing.
usedbooks at 7:20PM, Nov. 17, 2024
Used Books protagonists are mostly incredibly lazy and just want to be left alone. They also mostly don't hold their own in a serious fight. I say "mostly" because there's definitely a vigilante or two hanging around. They are definitely not viewed as particularly righteous even by their own estimation -they don't see it as "justice" but as damage control. They aren't punishing bad guys but preventing further damage. Maybe it's more like sacrificing their own virtue for public safety? I feel like some of the vigilante super heroes are the same. They don't care if bad deeds are punished but are dedicated to preventing more hurt. So their actions should be judged not by the punishment's comparison to the crime, but by the hurt caused compared to the hurt being prevented (which is very presumptuous and can definitely make the vigilante a dark character, especially if the bad guy's attempts have failed and they only have *potential* for major damage).
usedbooks at 7:06PM, Nov. 17, 2024
Is vigilante justice semi-formal? Like the little black dress of the justice-vengeance spectrum? Or is it just regular revenge pretending to be justice - like one of those t-shirts with a print of a tuxedo on it?
PaulEberhardt at 9:23AM, Nov. 16, 2024
I would never advocate revenge or any other way of trying to solve problems with violence, but I love a good revenge story, whose protagonist just doesn't give a damn about whether it's the prudent or right thing to do and just goes for it. Imagining these things helps a lot in getting a good taste of sweet satisfaction without having to experience all of its many negative side-effects. ||| My characters don't believe in one "true" justice and disapprove of those who do. They just take it for granted that life isn't fair - and as long as they can keep it slightly unfair in their own favour it doesn't matter. They'll go against somebody else omitting the "slightly", though, because while their ethical imperative isn't striving to "be good", they've still got striving to "do right" in its place. Vengeance in my comics is usually about small things and the quick and dirty instant karma kind. I might portray someone holding a grudge if I think I can get some good laughs out of it.
dragonsong12 at 6:27AM, Nov. 16, 2024
This is a great topic to explore. Part of what's really interesting in writing these kinds of stories is how thin the line between these concepts can really be. Humans never want to see themselves as the villain and are capable of justifying even the worst acts to themselves, so actions that in their own heads seem entirely righteous become monstrous when viewed from the outside. It's a balance that has to be maintained when writing to acknowledge the actions for what they are while still accepting how individual characters will view them.
Andreas_Helixfinger at 5:14AM, Nov. 16, 2024
This is the exact explanation to why comic characters like The Punisher always ends up rubbing me the wrong way. Frank Castle is to me a man who's gone far beyond the boundaries of revenge and is basically just dehumanizing criminals so that he can exact violence to them as sadistically and viciously as he wants. Like, I get the cathargic romanticization of collective punishment against the predators of society, but it still ends up making me feeling a little bit uncomfortable. Maybe that's part of why I prefer writing characters who are humanized rogues and/or flawed grunts and authority figures of society, rather then cheerleadered vigilantes who hunts the rogues down under the pretext of "true justice". But that's just me.
marcorossi at 12:35AM, Nov. 16, 2024
I'd say that revenge happens when someone who subjectively feels wronged acts out against the perpetrators or close to them, whereas "justice" refers to a socially accepted system where people who are socially perceived as acting bad are punished as a form of deterrence. The difference is both on the subjective/intersubjective axis and on the fact that revenge satisfies a personal urge whereas justice is supposed to work for the advantage of the community (utilitarian).