harkovast
I have no idea who malal is, that's why I assumed he/she is a loser.

The Golta have fought a few small wars with other races, but nothing on a very large scale.

The Golta penisular is very well defended with forts and garrisons and patrolling rangers and since the Golta are so insular, they don't really provoke invasion from others very much.

The Golta generally see themselves as under a lot more threat they actually are, especially since they tend to think of all other races as one big group that plots against them (using tolpish as a collective term adds to this sense of everyone else against us.)

Malal is the forgotten (by players) god that represent's chaos' tendency to destroy itself. He fights Chaos because it is his nature to want to destroy them all, and the other Chaos gods really hate him… but so does everyone else, because he is still a chaos deity.

But were those ‘small wars’ acts of aggression on the Golta's part or the other party?

You would think that their technology would be reason enough to invade.

So they are like eldar to an extent, but think the plotting is against them instead of being the plotters. Interesting.

Malal is lame and thats why they dont mention him anymore.

This whole Golta are like Eldar thing I dont really get. Stylistically they are nothign alike, they have no secret big plans and designs and they are not a dieing race. They have a Spartan life style so Eldar love of art and aesthetics would be seen as decadent by them.

A few people have invade the golta to try and get their weapons, but more in a raid way (that was a lot of trouble and the weapons don't work without golta to maintain them). There has not really been a large scale serious attempt to take them over.

harkovast
Malal is lame and thats why they dont mention him anymore.

This whole Golta are like Eldar thing I dont really get. Stylistically they are nothign alike, they have no secret big plans and designs and they are not a dieing race. They have a Spartan life style so Eldar love of art and aesthetics would be seen as decadent by them.

A few people have invade the golta to try and get their weapons, but more in a raid way (that was a lot of trouble and the weapons don't work without golta to maintain them). There has not really been a large scale serious attempt to take them over.

I would think that if another tech magic race got ahold of one they could reverse engineer one, or perhaps make an improvement. I can see them being unable to duplicate the gunpowder exactly, and to compensate for inferior propellant they invent rifling or cartridges or something.

Golta magic, like all magic, is tied closely to being a Golta.
To learn their magic you have to learn to be like one of them.
It isn't really something you could “reverse engineer”, instead you would have adopt an entirely Golta philosophy and forsake the magic and beliefs you had been engaging in.

harkovast
Golta magic, like all magic, is tied closely to being a Golta.
To learn their magic you have to learn to be like one of them.
It isn't really something you could “reverse engineer”, instead you would have adopt an entirely Golta philosophy and forsake the magic and beliefs you had been engaging in.

No no no no, not at all. You would have to study it like a scientist, using your own tech magic to try to see how they did it. If you don't get it perfect, but figure out something similar with at least 60 % efficiency, you would have to invent something to compensate, no?

Why would tech magic not be able to duplicate, at least in part, the result of other tech magic? Sure, the magic is a result of a culture, but if it the same general type it should be able to be copied to an extent.

No?
Did you just tell me “no” about how I say magic in Harkovast works?

Thats certainly a unique stratedgy!

I think you are confusing technology magic and science and assuming the two things are the same and interchangeable.

In he same way that races with fire magic cannot reproduce Darsai energy weapons or Ano-Chee (who have life magic in common with Tsung-Dao) can't replicate Tsung-Dao kung fu, knowing technology magic does not let you replicate what Golta do.
Golta magic is based on their unique combination of technology and fire magic.
Without becoming like a Golta in the way you think and live, learning to replicate it is impossible.

Using science to study magic? Do I even need to point out what is wrong with this theory? And 60% efficiency? Where are you getting these numbers from?

harkovast
No?
Did you just tell me “no” about how I say magic in Harkovast works?

Thats certainly a unique stratedgy!

I think you are confusing technology magic and science and assuming the two things are the same and interchangeable.

In he same way that races with fire magic cannot reproduce Darsai energy weapons or Ano-Chee (who have life magic in common with Tsung-Dao) can't replicate Tsung-Dao kung fu, knowing technology magic does not let you replicate what Golta do.
Golta magic is based on their unique combination of technology and fire magic.
Without becoming like a Golta in the way you think and live, learning to replicate it is impossible.

Using science to study magic? Do I even need to point out what is wrong with this theory? And 60% efficiency? Where are you getting these numbers from?

It would seem you misunderstood me. I said ‘no’ because that's not what I meant with my question, not to say you were wrong. You didn't seem to see what I was getting at, and sadly misunderstood me again. D':

I was assuming technology magic and science are related, and knowledge of one would provide synergy to the other. For example, if you understand how an explosive propellant works, you might be able to glean knowledge of how something was done to improve it other than ‘it was their magic’. What did their magic DO exactly? If you know exactly what it did, then something can perhaps be done to copy it, if in an inferior way. That is what I was getting at this whole time. Scientific study doesn't mean science, just a way of looking at a problem. I pulled 60 % out of the air, it was just an example of how studying something advanced beyond you can lead to some kind of improvement of your own technology/philosophy/whatever if not the whole thing. If you understand part of something you can apply that part to what you already have.

Why not study magic? If it has laws and functions in a certain way every time, does it not have cause and effect? Therefore, how can it NOT be studied scientifically?

Wait, are you saying Tsung-Dao kung fu is magic? I didn't know that! Bruce Lee would be the greatest mage of all time, then, no? :D

EDIT: Though now that I think about it, telling you that you are wrong about your own creation is a great idea! You don't know what you're talking about! Baah! >:D

Okay applying a scientific method to understand how magic in Harkovast works would be effective.
Unfortauntely the conclusion such reaserch would lead you too (as I keep sayng) is that you cannot simply learn to do another cultures magic without embracing that culture entirely and abandoning your own culture.
If you wantto be able to work Golta magic to make your pyronite better, you need to become spiritually like a Golta. No amount of study will allow you to do it otherwise, any more than studying afish will tell you how to breath underwater or studying an areoplane teaches me to fly like super man.

You cna learn about magic and how it works, but how it works is as I have described above, there is no getting around this.

In other news…
Learning martial arts is not magic.
Learning martial arts that let you block swords with your forearms and punch in someones skull with your fist IS magic!
This is why Tsung-Dao martial arts involve magical elements.

harkovast
Okay applying a scientific method to understand how magic in Harkovast works would be effective.
Unfortauntely the conclusion such reaserch would lead you too (as I keep sayng) is that you cannot simply learn to do another cultures magic without embracing that culture entirely and abandoning your own culture.
If you wantto be able to work Golta magic to make your pyronite better, you need to become spiritually like a Golta. No amount of study will allow you to do it otherwise, any more than studying afish will tell you how to breath underwater or studying an areoplane teaches me to fly like super man.

You cna learn about magic and how it works, but how it works is as I have described above, there is no getting around this.

In other news…
Learning martial arts is not magic.
Learning martial arts that let you block swords with your forearms and punch in someones skull with your fist IS magic!
This is why Tsung-Dao martial arts involve magical elements.

I was thinking that perhaps you can circumvent the ‘you can’t use another race's magic' if you figure a way to emulate it with your own. Perhaps it won't work as well, but it would be something, no? But if you say that there is no way, even if you understand how it works, to copy the effects (the EFFECTS, mind, not the magic. Raising the dead and raising spirits are 2 sides of the same coin, no? Similar effects, different magic. Usually. With technology it will probably work out differently, but who knows with magic?) of a different race's magic, then it is so.

I meant more in depth. The limits of each kind of magic, what EXACTLY each ability can do. Stretching the bounds with creativity, finding ways to use magic more efficiently, ect.

You mean you can't punch through people's heads with your bare hands? :O
Going by old kung-fu movies, people can totally do that without magic. Totally.

More plausible would be if you were already expert in a magic and found new ways to apply it, rather than hoping to copy someone else's magic and expect to do it better than they did.
You would still need to adopt the other races culture and mind set to learn any of their magic. Magic is not something you can learn from reading a book. You can study Golta your whole life and you wont be able to do what a Golta can do. Magic is an innate thing in Harkovast that comes from who a person is and the values of their culture.

i suppose if mind mages took someone and created various split personnalities would have the magical attunement naturally default to the persons original race driving his split personas into further madnesss. correct?

Wow, that is such a strange situation I'm even sure what would happen!
Presumably clones would have the same magic as the creature they were based on (though perhaps they could be attune to their creator? Who knows?)

clones? no, i was talking about split personalities, like the green goblin in the spiderman movie, normal(ish) one way, psyco the other. would a split personality of a darsai be given to a tsung-dao, allowing a switch between the magical abilities of one to another?
as for clones, it would depend on if the clone has the same memories and mentality of the cloned person. if it was empty, then one could fill it with any ideas they wanted, if they possessed the potential.

Split personalities with different magics?
Okay we have hit the limit of what even I know about Harkovast at this point!
I got nothing!
What ever you think would happen….sure, that happens! why not?

Although I doubt it would work (because of the whole “must adopt the culture to use the magic” thing) imagine if someone stitched together a creature from spare parts from various races; like some ultimate magic user made out of rotting meat!

The only thing worse than a misshapen zombie is a misshapen zombie that can throw fireballs and teleport.

Magic in Harkovast is not like the Force in Star Wars, you cant give it to people with a blood transfusion.

Unless the frankenstiens monsters creation retained some part of the souls of those that made it up…

wait, wait… you hit your limit? you have given up control of what could happen to me?…>:D

everytime a split personality uses magic, everyone dances in a pokerface music video with Chen-Chen as lady gaga.

best… magic… eva! who could stand strong against such a force?

and so, it is written…

I wonder if anyone will take up the challenge and make a harkovast slide show/ animation to the pokerface song?

only if you pay them hark, only if you pay them.

Yet another thing to buy using the profits I made from Harkovast- The musical (which is going to take the west end by storm, believe me!)

I'm not sure if I asked this before, but under what circumstances would foreigners be allowed to enter Golta territory? Would it be unheard of for merchants or other civilians to enter, or less likely, envoys from other nations?
If they did I can image they would receive an escort to keep them from undermining the Golta nation, but how likely would it be for a Golta to start something with the visitors (requiring the escort to protect them instead)?
Let's say that someone was able to sneak onto the peninsula past the patrols, if they were found behind their lines how could they expect to be treated (I'm seeing a line of riflemen in their near future, but would they be tried in a court, would they be tortured to uncover other enemy spies)?
What if some poor bastard had the misfortune of accidently crossing the boarder without meeting any patrols and was later caught, what could he expect from his captors?

Golta do allow merchants and traders into their territory, though they need proper paper work to show they are allowed to be there.
Diplomats are also allowed, though the Golta always aimto stay neutral in foriegn disputes.
If someone was found to be in the country without proper paper work they would be taken into custody for questioning.
The Golta are not especially blood thirsty, so the person could expect due process.
The person would be suspected of spying or sabotage, and would be questioned heavily to determine what they were up to.
If they had a legitimate reason to be there they might be granted the paper work to stay, in most cases they would simply be deported, either sent back to their own nation or simply taken to the edge of Golta territory with their belongings and left.
Only if someone was proven to be spying or working against the Golta Nation (or were a repeat offender) would they face inprisonment or execution.
The Golta are a pretty law abiding bunch, so most hostility to foriegners would be more in the form of dirty looks and avoiding their company, rather than out right hostility. Even so, a foriegn visitor would be well advised to keep out of trouble as the Golta would come down very hard on any bad behaviour or rudeness from an outsider!

How about crime levels in the Golta nation? The same time period that their culture is inspired by was also a time of highwaymen most notable in Britain, but also in the United States.
Golta bandits would be made more effective by their access to firearms, but within the Golta nation their victims would also be armed. Assuming that highway robbery does take place, how widespread would marauding gangs and individual bandits be?
Outside of Golta boarders are Golta bandits an issue? Do Golta brigands exist? Do they travel in groups, as individuals, or will they join up with other bandits from other races for gain (would they take interst in leading such gangs of Tolpish)?
I can imagine in times of unrest and war that Golta mercenary groups would be more common as they travel to find work with different armies, but do they cause any trouble (soldiers under the influence of booze can be an unpredictable and hazardous lot)?
Have their been any uprisings in the Golta nation, and if there have, what would they want to achieve and how effective were they?