The rival's killing is limited.
Besides, the rival is on the townie's side.

crocty
The rival's killing is limited.
Besides, the rival is on the townie's side.

Not really. The rival is kinda like the vigilante except he is prefers killing mobsters over townies. His end game goal is still the same as the mobsters.

Beside, the rival killed a townie last night.

And it's true, Niccea. The biggest advantage that the mob has is the fact that they know of each other and that they can co-ordinate their killings.

That is why there are bodyguards or mayor aids, to give the mayor a bit of a network.

Product Placement
His end game goal is still the same as the mobsters.

This is what I didn't like about baron's game, he made it way too confusing.
If the townies kill all mafia and the zombie, the townies win, and so does the rival.

I'm to understand the rival can only kill on the third night, and every other third night from then on.

:/ Unless Baron told you otherwise, the rival didn't kill.
And if Baron told you otherwise, he's changed the rules.

Actually, Red clarified it. The rival can kill every three nights, but they can start killing on any night they want.

It's been confirmed that the one of the last night kills was made by a rival.

5 murders = 3 mobsters, 1 vigilante, 1 rival.

If the rival goal is only to get rid of the mobsters then effectively he'd only be a second vigilante.

Rulebook
Rival Member
One member of the game will be a Rival to the Mob. He is like a townie but has the ability to kill once every three nights. He wins by being the in the final three.

This means that if the mobsters are all taken cared of and there are more then three players left, the rival has to continue killing until the number drops to that level.

Product Placement
It's been confirmed that the one of the last night kills was made by a rival.

5 murders = 3 mobsters, 1 vigilante, 1 rival.

If the rival goal is only to get rid of the mobsters then effectively he'd only be a second vigilante.

Rulebook
Rival Member
One member of the game will be a Rival to the Mob. He is like a townie but has the ability to kill once every three nights. He wins by being the in the final three.

This means that if the mobsters are all taken cared of and there are more then three players left, the rival has to continue killing until the number drops to that level.

Nope, I asked Baron myself, he said that if the townies win, the rival shares their victory.

Well the rules as he states them on page one contradicts that. So he's changed the rules.

And like I said. He's basically just another vigilante then, only weaker.

Oh and regarding the complaints about the paranoid. It seem like the paranoid has become the veteran from game one(basically he now has the ability to have two night lives) except that he needs to wait for two days in order to charge it up.

Rulebook
Paranoid
You understand that the world is a scary place. That the people around you can not be trusted. You have placed recording devices around the town and have the ability to listen into conversations. Every morning you will receive snippets of pms giving you more clues. You can either use these in two ways. You can inform the town of what you have learn, this will be a random act, such as graffiti on the walls, or you can use the information you have learned by giving yourself an extra night life. Two nights worth of information will give you one extra life. But it is either one or the other. If you risk yourself by giving the town clues eventually the mob will catch on. And they will receive clues about you.

PP, I've agreed with your last several posts (a roll-up agreement :))

Hark said he didn't get to use his “extra” life even though it was the second night.

I think if you are going to change the role of an existing “special” such as the paranoid, the name of the role needs to be changed.

I've been in game design to a limited extend and it's very hard to find the perfect balance and the game has to be played to see if there is a clear advantage for one side or the other (and the mafia owns the game in M4). And changing a role such as paranoid seems minor but the impact (of making the mafia more tentative) may not be felt until the game starts. One of the challenges of a game that shifts every time it's played.

I agree that the role of the rival has changed since I originally read the role… I assumed he was more like the serial killer in M3 and would win if everyone else was dead. oh well.

And, Gullas needs to be never, never be given the Vig role again :)

Product Placement
Well the rules as he states them on page one contradicts that. So he's changed the rules.

And like I said. He's basically just another vigilante then, only weaker.

Oh and regarding the complaints about the paranoid. It seem like the paranoid has become the veteran from game one(basically he now has the ability to have two night lives) except that he needs to wait for two days in order to charge it up.

Rulebook
Paranoid
You understand that the world is a scary place. That the people around you can not be trusted. You have placed recording devices around the town and have the ability to listen into conversations. Every morning you will receive snippets of pms giving you more clues. You can either use these in two ways. You can inform the town of what you have learn, this will be a random act, such as graffiti on the walls, or you can use the information you have learned by giving yourself an extra night life. Two nights worth of information will give you one extra life. But it is either one or the other. If you risk yourself by giving the town clues eventually the mob will catch on. And they will receive clues about you.

I didn't change the rules on the rival. The town wins if all of the mob are dead. This win would end the game so the Rival would technically “win” to thats all. his personal win is to just be in the final three.

But what makes him different from the vigilante, apart from killing only once every three night?

I understand that my last few posts here may sound like an attack on you since you're the GM for this round but it is nothing personal to you. It's just my first time at this and I'm digesting the game in my mind.

I think the next time we should try to give the paranoid his old role again. I don't like the idea of the rival, unless we chance him and the zombie doesn't fit there. I like the randoms and we should keep that around. I'd like to chance the mob system so that the we'd go back to the godfather being untouchable/undetectable until all the other mobsters are dead, no goon is needed. We should try a mixture of 3 mobsters, a god father, and a mad bomber and that the bomber can gain random power. Once all the mobsters are dead, the godfather gains killing power and becomes detectable.

Technically speaking. If the godfather left a horse head in mine and BK's games, clues would be left.

Ok. That's fair. But I liked the part where if the police chief/detective does a background check on the godfather, he comes out as a townie.

I'd like to be around and help design the rules for the next game. I don't know if I'd be good at making clues though so I suggest someone else take the role of a GM.

Oh and, I liked the way the random worked this time.
T'was much different from the other two times. =w=_b

I still don't know what the good random does. It hasn't come up… unless I missed it.

^_~ Total secret!

crocty
^_~ Total secret!

HA. Sorry you are dead in M4 man.

Baron, I think you have added some very interesting elements to the game… if we had enough people we could do two mob groups and the civies… that would really be confusing but fun :D

I just want to play as mafia eventually… I'm tired of the white hat :D


I know what I think worked well in M3 and M4

crocty
^_~ Total secret!

What are you talking about man… i thought you were the serial killer in m3? HAHA..

Aghammer
HA. Sorry you are dead in M4 man.

Baron, I think you have added some very interesting elements to the game… if we had enough people we could do two mob groups and the civies… that would really be confusing but fun :D

I just want to play as mafia eventually… I'm tired of the white hat :D


I know what I think worked well in M3 and M4

crocty
^_~ Total secret!

Aghammer
Baron, I think you have added some very interesting elements to the game… if we had enough people we could do two mob groups and the civies… that would really be confusing but fun :D

:/ That could be dangerous. If the idea is to have two mobster groups that could accidentally kill each other off, there would have to be some very strict rules against them working together. The two groups might secretly call a truce and co-ordinate an attack on non members for couple of rounds before deciding to focus on each other.

How would they do it? If the mobsters become aware of each other they could send between themselves a list of 5 non member for the other group to kill. That way they could ensure that they stay safe for a short time and at the same time they would devastate the civilian population. When it becomes that much harder for the townies to do anything about it, the mobster can then focus on wiping out the competition.

When designing a game we'll always have to take metagaming into consideration.

=w= They wouldn't risk it.
Even if they did, then the other mafia could just screw them over and tell the townies.

It's an interesting idea, but we'd need way more players for it to work, and it would get confusing…

I was half-way joking but that option would take a lot more players and a lot more thought about how the pieces fit together. I think, at this point, the rival is probably not the best role for a 20 person game.

crocty
=w= They wouldn't risk it.
Even if they did, then the other mafia could just screw them over and tell the townies.

It's an interesting idea, but we'd need way more players for it to work, and it would get confusing…

Aghammer
What are you talking about man… i thought you were the serial killer in m3? HAHA..

I still haven't forgiven you for that. ):

Hey, I didn't kill you (sorry Baron) but I did try to frame you (a red herring ;))

crocty

Aghammer
What are you talking about man… i thought you were the serial killer in m3? HAHA..

I still haven't forgiven you for that. ):

Well Aghammer is the best clue writer ever. He wrote his own clues for my game.

But I do think that now that we are starting to get the hang of it, we can start pulling more numbers. To date, I've held the biggest name of 21 people.

Can anyone beat me?

HAHAHA!

And got myself killed…HAHA…

Aren't you GMing game 5?

Niccea
Well Aghammer is the best clue writer ever. He wrote his own clues for my game.

But I do think that now that we are starting to get the hang of it, we can start pulling more numbers. To date, I've held the biggest name of 21 people.

Can anyone beat me?

HAHAHA!

No. That is Vak.

Ah the hell with it. I'm gonna post it here as well.



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eh, say what you want PP, I am happy with the fact that I tried some new things. Each GM needs to keep trying new things or the game will get stale.

the2ndredbaron
eh, say what you want PP, I am happy with the fact that I tried some new things. Each GM needs to keep trying new things or the game will get stale.

Be as happy as you want to be with your game. I can't deny that it was fun. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with voicing out one's opinion.